Hey you, rock steady crew!

[twister!]

Where do you guys get your crews from? Are they just friends? I've read that film students are happy to work for expenses - they're also getting the valuable experience of working on a production. Is this true or is it just exploitative - I don't have any money to pay anybody???

[This message has been edited by twister! (edited August 14, 2001).]

[austintash]

Don't pay those mugs a penny! They don't deserve it. If they could get a real job they wouldn't be fcuking around on your bodge-job "film".
www.shootingpeople.org is a great place to advertise for crew and nude actors. You will get lots of responses unless they've worked with you before.

Good luck

[eddie]

To be honest I think that students dont make the best crew (sorry).
There are many people in the world with loads of different skills and abilitys who can apply these to filmmaking and will work for you for the free. But you have to find em. Try and get people who enjoy being professional. Its a hell of a lot easier than dealing with people who just want to have a laugh - but dont have a 'work' mentality.
(use friends and family - use anyone, but make it clear that you are serious about this and dont want them twatting around *too* much)

[Generic Skinhead]

Wrong again (sigh). It depends on which students you use. Where I study there are 3 kinds: gifted and enthusiastic, competent and enthusiastic and some who just want to mess around all the time. Can you guess which type you should enlist?

Students are a better bet than people in IT who do this stuff as a hobby at the weekends.

[Chance1234]

Im with Eddie on this, got to say from all the crew we have had and have, students make the worst crew members. in fact i dont take students on at all now.

lots of reasons one they can give a good commitment (exams , deadlines etc) and there availiability is pants, also if they been doing a film course or media course theyve normal get a shock on a real set and fall over and die and we have to sweep up which takes time.

Think one of the things that bug me most and this is not just film either, is understanding that this is real money and real time. students are 10 times more likely if something needs doing and tehy have problems is to simply leave it.

dont get me wrong there are exceptions of course , but in a whole students do not make good crew. the best bet is freelancer's , you can get them for free , there proffesionals they know there job, plus as there not always working all the time and like doing different things. also some tiems they have there own kit

on my crew at the moment

My DOP works in the industry as a Motion Control cameraman and has worked on mor emusic videos and stuff you can remember

My Cameraman is a freelancer. done tons of television so is my sound man both have credits that go for ever. My lighitng guy has over twenty years experienc in the industry, my make up artist was involved with the prosphetics on the mummy 2, i coudl go on but lots of experience and know how. and believe me it makes a hell of a lot of difference in the quality of your production.

Also finally once you have made one film, it gets a hell of a lot easier to crew


Chance

whoes ready for the insults to roll from insulting students

[philipswales]

My crew is made up of a handful of friends from way back, most of whom were willing to help me make my debut short and stayed along for the ride.
http://www.sparetimefilms.co.uk

[eddie]

I disagree with you, but then that is my experience.
You need to have a crew who
- Appreciate that it is 'your' film
- listen to what you say
- know how to do what you ask
- turn up on time and get on with it
- criticise constructively

in *my* experience actually IT people (for example) are better at doing those things.

[twister!]

So, Chance, where do you find these people - are they from somewhere like www.shootingpeople or just people you know?

[Generic Skinhead]

MMMMMMMMMMMMMMKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKK

Now Chance, even though I've never seen you and we've never replied to each others posts (perhaps you can sense my studenty aroma), I've come to view you as the "Yoda" figure of the board. Your old and wise, everybody respects you cos of your storyboards, your production company named after your number plate, your Deadlights etc.

Chance you make money from your films. And you've got your Mortus Illumina on the way and everyone on the board is tense with excitement.

Yes, yes the universally popular chance, memebers of this board will gladly pay to see your films because your films are well made. Even if we must wait two years for delivery.

In short Chance, your a wonderful human being. But you see, then just because you've had some bad personal expeiriences, you had to go bad-mouthing my kind...still, as you say there are some exceptions, some students actually have more expeirience and creative vision than a lot of the self-delusional wannabe directors out there...

You want an exception to the lazy, useless, unreliable student norm. I'm right here. And i've got a whole crew of exceptions right here. There is no-one on this board, who after working with me could bunch me in with your useless "media" students.

Generic Skinhead is the future. Generic Skinhead is your "exception."

[Chance1234]

Don?t take it personally Generic, but when you are crewing you do have to use stereotypes, if you get 80 e-mails in from a crewing add, you have to whittle them down someway. I was having a chat with someone about this the other day. Normally when I get a response from a crewing AD, the first thing I do is flick through there covering letter or e-mail and look for negativity ie ?I don?t have any experience ?? not that they don?t have any experience more that there stating it as a negative rather than saying something like Keen to learn or looking for a challenge. Things like that and stupid people as well who put things like ?can you schedule the film round me? or pepople who don?t read the Ad. From the ones left over, there the ones who I go through there CV?s, firstly to spot anything I might reconise and also to sniff out the B*llshit and theres a lot! Some really stupid like ?cameraman on feature using the Sony A5, format PVC with George Lucas as my assistant?

The the next stage is going through and deciding on who has the experience or enthusiasm to do the job. Those ones get an interview. If after an interview im stuck with a decision, ie a Student, A Freelancer, Some keen bean, Student will be te first to be knocked off the list.

Expanding on another point, you also need to think about what is that person going to bring to your production, and how that person is going to fit in with the production, you need people who are drivers, you need people who are flexible, you need peoples mobiles phones are always going to be charged, you need people who can work to your productions schedule, you need people who can make your meetings and shoots, on a low budget even though we pay expensies you cant afford to support anyone for minor thigns such as phone calls, turning up at meetings, printing scripts etc etc. going back to what they can bring to yoru production someone who is not in a studying position can offer a lot more.

As said yes there are exceptions, and my opinion is based on not just a few bad experience! It?s based on experience in general. One thing, we always have Movie Virgins in with our crew as well as our hard corers, I rate enthusiasm just as much as experience. But for us to do that, we have to have the proffesionalism and experience there in the first place.

Changing the tail slightly, a ground to tread carefully on is Friends or Friends or crew or friends of friends of cast and crew, you have to be extremely careful . it can be thin ice ! yes your friend maybe good company down the pub , but how are they going to be on set ? also friend of a crew member what could happen if you have a proffesional disagreement with them ? it is all tricky stuff but that is where drilling proffesionalism kicks in.

In response to the SP question , yeap I use shooting people all the time to crew and cast but also have a building book of contacts growing from all over the place, partys other films etc etc.

Chance